I’ve spent most of the year talking to MAGA supporters. Here are 5 things I’ve learned

EDITOR’S NOTE: Watch the CNN documentary, “ MAGA Ever After? ” premiering tonight at 8 p.m. ET/PT on “The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper.”

The backlash President Trump has received from his base over going to war with Iran is unprecedented in the 10-year history of the MAGA movement.

This, along with the economy, inflation, his administration’s handling of the Epstein files, and Trump’s closeness to tech billionaires like Mark Zuckerberg and support for their building of massive AI data centers, is testing the loyalty of the president’s base.

I’ve spent much of the last decade covering the MAGA movement and most of the last year traveling the country for the documentary, “ MAGA Ever After? ” which premieres tonight at 8 p.m. ET on CNN.

In the doc we meet some former Trump faithful who have broken with the president in his second term, along with those who remain as loyal to him as ever. We also ask what’s next for the Republican Party as it comes to terms with the prospect of a post-Trump future.

After speaking to hundreds of Republicans over the last few months, here are five of my takeaways:

Four weeks into the war, I went to the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Dallas. Like just about everything in Republican politics, the annual gathering of the conservative faithful has transformed over the last decade into MAGA’s image. The event has become a multi-day rally of the Trump base.

It was notable then, among the dozens of people I spoke to, how vocal many were in their criticism of Trump.

I met Trump supporters over 40 who said they’d come to accept the belief that despite the president’s years-long “no new wars” pledge, bombing Iran was needed. The threat from Tehran was imminent, they believed.

“Unfortunately, I think it’s necessary,” one woman said. “He’s the only president that had the backbone to take it on.”

But for the younger male conservatives at CPAC, Iran was Trump’s ultimate betrayal.

“I’m not happy. I’m not happy at all,” said a 22-year-old CPAC attendee who had voted for Trump. “President Trump ran on no new wars, and I feel like we’ve been co-opted into a war that shouldn’t be ours. It should be Israel’s.”

Trump has broken campaign promises before. So why was his decision to go to war with Iran the final straw for so many young men?

Young men are not a monolith. But many of those young men who support Trump live in an information environment — not permanently moored to conventional orthodoxy of a single party — dominated by podcasters and opinion-shapers ranging from Joe Rogan and Piers Morgan to more right-wing voices like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes.

Young conservative men took the “no new wars” mantra most seriously because they are among the people most likely to be sent to fight. There’s a genuine sense among them that the US should be doing more to help Americans than to fight wars. They’re also increasingly focused on America’s relationship with Israel.

While older Republicans — more likely to watch Fox News than younger ones — are told the war is a good thing because Israel is America’s ally, the Rogans and Tuckers of the world disagree. And they are not afraid to make that known.

Former MAGA diehard comes face-to-face with Epstein survivor

On the far-right end of the spectrum, a drumbeat of antisemitism animates much of this debate.

Many of the young men who voted for Trump over the last three presidential elections were first-time voters who turned 18 over the last decade. They were sold on Trump by the likes of Rogan and conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

But like Rogan, who was a supporter of Sen. Bernie Sanders in 2016 before moving rightward to Trump, these men’s future votes are up for grabs as they process the betrayal they feel.

“That sort of pisses me off,” Delsia Bare told me. “When you’re from Appalachia, you’ve always been backward and poor.”

Bare was reacting to Trump’s recent comment that communities that oppose the building of artificial intelligence data centers want to be “backward and poor.”

Delsia, 54, was sitting with her mother, Ida, 82, at home on their family farm in Mason County, Kentucky. Mason is deep red; Trump won 71% of the vote in the county in 2024, and Delsia and Ida have voted for him three times.

The mother and daughter made headlines around the world for turning down a reported $26 million from a big-tech company seeking to build a gigantic data center on their and their neighbors’ farmland.

It’s a fight that is happening across the country as Silicon Valley rushes to build capacity for the data-hungry AI systems increasingly playing dominant roles in our lives.

Trump, who was elected twice in part by tapping into the grievances of regular Americans, seems out of step with his base on this issue.

Steve Bannon, dean of the MAGA movement, expressed the frustration most succinctly in an interview with JD Vance last week when he demanded the vice president take action against his big-tech “oligarch sponsors.”

From freeways to power plants to prisons, the not-in-my-backyard phenomena is not new. But for Delsia and Ida, their fight against the proposed datacenter in their backyard has come to represent more than another public works project.

They see it as a fight against the 0.1%, the tech billionaires who stood behind Trump at his second inauguration and now regularly meet with him in the Oval Office.

And in their God-fearing, Bible Belt home it has also come to represent something spiritual: a fight against a new form of intelligence so unpredictable that even the people who are building it don’t know what it might do next.

Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images

“That’s anti-human, that’s what AI is,” Delsia said. “It doesn’t have any morals and it can’t be held to God’s standards.”

A mom and daughter up against a multibillion-dollar tech company? This sounds like David and Goliath, I suggested.

“But I’ll remind you,” Delsia responded, “it only took one stone to bring down a Philistine. One itty bitty little stone in the right place can bring down any giant that there is on this planet.”

Sadly for Vice President JD Vance, of the couple of hundred of members of the MAGA base I spoke with over the last six months, and the dozens I asked directly about potential Republican presidential candidates in 2028, none mentioned him with any great enthusiasm.

Daniel Heuer/Pool/Getty Images

The name I heard most frequently was Marco Rubio — who wears several hats, including running the State Department as well as being the national security advisor. There seems to be a sense that the former senator from Florida has his head down and gets the work done.

The lack of enthusiasm for Vance seems due to his association with the Iran war.

When I’ve asked why Rubio, whose is at the heart of U.S. foreign policy, doesn’t seem tarnished as harshly by the war, the response is usually a shrug.

Amid Trump’s low poll numbers and all the challenges facing him and the Republican Party going into the midterms, it’s easy to forget that there are still millions of Americans who remain extremely loyal to the president.

Take Joe Black, a Trump supporter from Grand Junction, Colorado, who I first met three years ago at a Trump rally in Nevada.

Joe told me ahead of the 2024 election that he wanted Trump back in the White House to bring down gas prices and to end foreign wars.

When I visited Joe a few weeks ago, he acknowledged that the cost of gas was tough, but he was convinced that the president was right to go to war with Iran.

“Nobody likes war,” Black told me. “But anybody who knows this Iranian regime, like for the last 47 years they’ve just been bad guys going around bullying, blowing people up.”

Even those critical of Trump in some areas, like AI, support him in others. Delsia and Ida in Kentucky also agreed that Trump made the right call in Iran.

“The United States was good-hearted,” Ida said of American foreign policy in the Middle East. “We’ve taken care of all these nations.” But “time after time they still chant, ‘Death to America. Death to America!’”

“Well,” she said, “it’s time we put a stop to death to America.”

In 2024, many Trump supporters pointed to the state of former President Joe Biden’s economy and wars in Ukraine and Gaza as evidence of an America in decline and a world in disarray.

They now confront gas prices that are higher than they were two years ag o, inflation that is higher than it was when Biden left office, and a new war in Iran.

But supporters like Joe Black say whatever is happening under Trump is better than the alternative.

“Just use your imagination for a second and imagine the world that we’d be living in right now if Kamala Harris got in,” Black said. “Just think of what kind of a hellhole world this would be right now.”

Barack Obama may have left the White House almost a decade ago, but I have heard his name on the campaign trail with increasing frequency in recent months.

Asked about Trump’s war with Iran, Joe Black quickly pivoted: “Obama was the king of killing people with drones,” he said.

Jim Vondruska/Getty Images

The more difficult it gets to compare Trump’s America favorably to Biden’s, the more likely it is I will hear the name Obama.

Trump loyalists say it’s Obama who didn’t love America — not the president who recently suggested he’d allow Los Angeles and San Diego be bombed by an adversary.

Trump loyalists say it’s Obama who was pulling a fast one on the American people — not the president who is making billions of dollars in crypto.

Obama whataboutisms rarely survive serious scrutiny. But the feelings and the memories, real or imagined, his name invokes for many in the MAGA base feel very real. His election, to them, is America’s true original sin.

编者按：请观看 CNN 纪录片《MAGA 之后呢？》，该片将于今晚美国东部时间/太平洋时间晚上 8 点在“安德森·库珀的完整故事”节目中首播。

特朗普总统因对伊朗开战而遭到其支持者的强烈反对，这在“让美国再次伟大”（MAGA）运动的10年历史上是前所未有的。

再加上经济形势、通货膨胀、他的政府对爱泼斯坦档案的处理，以及特朗普与马克·扎克伯格等科技亿万富翁的密切关系以及他支持他们建设大型人工智能数据中心，这些因素都在考验总统支持者的忠诚度。

在过去的十年里，我花了大量时间报道“让美国再次伟大”（MAGA）运动，并在过去一年的大部分时间里走遍全国，拍摄纪录片《MAGA 之后呢？》，该片将于今晚美国东部时间晚上 8 点在 CNN 首播。

这部纪录片采访了一些曾经的特朗普忠实拥趸，他们在特朗普的第二个任期内与他决裂；同时也采访了一些依然对他忠心耿耿的人。此外，我们还探讨了共和党在面对后特朗普时代前景时，下一步将走向何方。

在过去几个月与数百名共和党人交谈后，我总结出以下五点：

战争爆发四周后，我去了达拉斯参加保守派政治行动大会（CPAC）。和共和党政治中的几乎所有事情一样，这场保守派信徒的年度聚会在过去十年里已经完全变成了“让美国再次伟大”（MAGA）运动的翻版。它已经变成了一场为期数天的特朗普支持者集会。

当时，在我采访的几十个人中，有很多人都公开批评特朗普，这一点尤其引人注目。

我遇到一些四十多岁的特朗普支持者，他们说他们已经接受了这样一个观点：尽管总统多年来一直承诺“不发动新战争”，但轰炸伊朗是必要的。他们认为，来自德黑兰的威胁迫在眉睫。

“很遗憾，我认为这是必要的，”一位女士说。“他是唯一一位有魄力承担这项任务的总统。”

但对于参加保守派政治行动会议 (CPAC) 的年轻男性保守派人士来说，伊朗问题是特朗普最大的背叛。

“我不高兴，一点也不高兴，”一位22岁的保守派政治行动会议（CPAC）与会者说道，他曾投票支持特朗普。“特朗普总统竞选时承诺不发动新的战争，但我感觉我们被卷入了一场本不该由我们参与的战争。这场战争应该是以色列的。”

特朗普以前也曾违背竞选承诺。那么，为什么他决定对伊朗开战会成为压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草呢？

年轻人并非铁板一块。但许多支持特朗普的年轻人生活在一个信息环境中——这个环境并非始终依附于单一政党的传统正统观念——而是由播客和意见领袖主导，这些人包括乔·罗根、皮尔斯·摩根，以及塔克·卡尔森、尼克·富恩特斯等更右翼的声音。

年轻的保守派男性最认真地对待“不再发动新战争”的口号，因为他们是最有可能被派往前线作战的人群之一。他们真切地感受到，美国应该更多地帮助美国人民，而不是发动战争。他们也越来越关注美国与以色列的关系。

虽然年长的共和党人——他们比年轻的共和党人更可能收看福克斯新闻——被告知这场战争是件好事，因为以色列是美国的盟友，但像罗根和塔克这样的人却不这么认为。而且他们毫不畏惧地表达自己的观点。

前MAGA死忠粉与爱泼斯坦案幸存者正面交锋

在极右翼阵营中，反犹主义的论调充斥着这场辩论。

在过去三届总统选举中，许多投票给特朗普的年轻男性都是过去十年里首次投票的选民，他们年满18岁。罗根和保守派活动家查理·柯克等人的言论让他们相信了特朗普。

但就像罗根一样，他在 2016 年曾是参议员伯尼·桑德斯的支持者，后来转向支持特朗普，这些男性的未来投票意向尚不明朗，因为他们正在消化自己感受到的背叛。

“这让我有点生气，”德尔西亚·贝尔告诉我。“如果你来自阿巴拉契亚地区，你就会一直被认为是落后和贫穷的。”

Bare 的回应是针对特朗普最近的言论，特朗普称反对建设人工智能数据中心的社区想要“落后和贫穷”。

54岁的德尔西亚和她82岁的母亲艾达坐在肯塔基州梅森县的家中农场里。梅森县是共和党的铁票仓；2024年，特朗普在该县赢得了71%的选票，德尔西亚和艾达已经三次投票支持他。

据报道，一家大型科技公司向这对母女开出了 2600 万美元的报价，希望在她们和邻居的农田上建造一个巨型数据中心，因此她们拒绝了该公司的报价，此事引起了全世界的关注。

这场斗争正在全国范围内展开，硅谷竞相为数据密集型人工智能系统构建能力，这些系统在我们的生活中扮演着越来越重要的角色。

特朗普曾两次当选总统，部分原因是他迎合了普通美国民众的不满情绪，但在这个问题上，他似乎与他的支持者意见相左。

MAGA运动的领军人物史蒂夫·班农上周在接受JD Vance采访时，最简洁地表达了他的沮丧之情，他要求副总统对他的大型科技“寡头赞助商”采取行动。

从高速公路到发电厂再到监狱，“邻避效应”由来已久。但对德尔西亚和艾达来说，她们反对在自家后院修建数据中心的斗争，意义远不止于一项普通的公共工程项目。

他们认为这是一场对抗 0.1% 的斗争，这些科技亿万富翁在特朗普的第二次就职典礼上支持他，现在经常在椭圆形办公室与他会面。

在他们敬畏上帝的圣经地带的家中，它也代表着某种精神象征：一场对抗新型智能的斗争，这种智能如此难以预测，以至于即使是建造它的人也不知道它下一步会做什么。

Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images

“人工智能就是反人类的，”德尔西亚说。“它没有任何道德观念，也不能用上帝的标准来衡量它。”

一对母女对抗一家价值数十亿美元的科技公司？这听起来像是大卫挑战歌利亚，我说道。

“但我得提醒你，”德尔西亚回答说，“一块石头就能击倒一个非利士人。一块小小的石头，放在合适的位置，就能击倒这个星球上的任何巨人。”

对于副总统 JD Vance 来说，令人遗憾的是，在过去六个月里，我与数百名 MAGA 支持者交谈过，并且直接询问了数十位 2028 年共和党总统候选人的潜在人选，但没有一个人对他表现出任何热情。

Daniel Heuer/Pool/Getty Images

我听到最多的名字是马可·卢比奥——他身兼数职，包括国务院部长和国家安全顾问。人们普遍认为这位来自佛罗里达州的前参议员为人低调务实，工作效率很高。

人们对万斯缺乏热情，似乎是因为他与伊朗战争有关。

当我问及为何身处美国外交政策核心的卢比奥似乎没有受到战争的严重损害时，得到的回答通常是耸耸肩。

在特朗普民调支持率低迷，以及他和共和党在中期选举中面临诸多挑战的情况下，人们很容易忘记，仍有数百万美国人对这位总统保持着极高的忠诚度。

以乔·布莱克为例，他是科罗拉多州大章克申的一位特朗普支持者，我三年前在内华达州的一次特朗普集会上第一次见到他。

乔在 2024 年大选前告诉我，他希望特朗普重返白宫，以降低汽油价格并结束对外战争。

几周前我去拜访乔时，他承认汽油价格高昂，但他坚信总统对伊朗开战是正确的。

“没人喜欢战争，”布莱克告诉我。“但任何了解伊朗政权的人都知道，过去47年来，他们一直都是些到处欺凌弱小、到处搞爆炸的坏人。”

即使是那些在某些领域（例如人工智能）批评特朗普的人，在其他领域也支持他。肯塔基州的德尔西亚和艾达也认为，特朗普在伊朗问题上的决定是正确的。

“美国心地善良，”艾达谈到美国在中东的外交政策时说。“我们照顾了所有这些国家。”但“他们仍然一次又一次地高喊，‘美国去死！美国去死！’”

“好吧，”她说，“是时候阻止美国走向灭亡了。”

2024年，许多特朗普的支持者指出，前总统乔·拜登的经济状况以及在乌克兰和加沙的战争，都表明美国正在衰落，世界正处于混乱之中。

他们现在面临的问题是：汽油价格比两年前更高，通货膨胀率比拜登卸任时更高，以及伊朗新战争。

但像乔·布莱克这样的支持者表示，无论特朗普执政期间发生什么，都比其他选择要好。

“请你稍微发挥一下想象力，想象一下如果卡玛拉·哈里斯当选，我们现在会生活在怎样的世界里，”布莱克说。“想想看，这会变成怎样一个人间炼狱。”

巴拉克·奥巴马虽然离开白宫已近十年，但在最近几个月里，我在竞选活动中越来越频繁地听到他的名字。

当被问及特朗普对伊朗的战争时，乔·布莱克迅速转移话题：“奥巴马才是用无人机杀人的王者，”他说。

吉姆·冯德鲁斯卡/盖蒂图片社

越是难以将特朗普时代的美国与拜登时代的美国进行比较并得出有利结论，我就越有可能听到奥巴马的名字。

特朗普的忠实拥护者说，不爱美国的是奥巴马，而不是最近暗示他会允许敌对势力轰炸洛杉矶和圣地亚哥的总统。

特朗普的忠实拥护者说，欺骗美国人民的是奥巴马，而不是这位在加密货币领域赚取数十亿美元的总统。

奥巴马的诡辩式诡辩很少能经得起严格的审视。但对于许多“让美国再次伟大”（MAGA）的支持者来说，他的名字所唤起的情感和记忆，无论真实与否，都无比真切。在他们看来，他的当选才是美国真正的原罪。