Eat the ‘dodgy sandwich,’ says chef David Chang

EDITOR’S NOTE: “The Detour with David Chang” follows the acclaimed chef, restaurateur and author in his pursuit of no-frills but unforgettable eats on the open road. Two episodes air weekly on Sundays at 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. ET/PT on CNN. Available for streaming next day.

We’re all a little too preoccupied with the quest for the best — the best cheesesteak, the best taco, the best new restaurant.

Chef David Chang’s solution: “Throw away your phone. I mean, really what’s the worst thing that’s gonna happen? You’re gonna go hungry? No, you’re gonna eat something.”

It won’t always be delicious, he says, but you’ll learn something if you “trust your own gut, literally.”

“Eating the best of the best of the best may not actually make the best experience,” says Chang, who founded his Momofuku empire in 2004 with a noodle bar in New York’s East Village and now has restaurants in Los Angeles, New York and Las Vegas.

In a world where “best of” lists drive clicks and sell publications, the natural urge to follow the arbiters of taste — plenty of whom “don’t know anything,” he says — is getting in the way of discovery. And Chang is guilty of it himself.

Less following and more exploring is what his new show “The Detour with David Chang” is all about. The CNN Original Series, which premieres Sunday, takes viewers along with Chang on six US road trips with stops in cities including Las Vegas, Nashville and Pittsburgh. He’s joined on the road by a variety of guests who all have the power to blow up the plan.

And along the way, Chang visits some places where he’s spent plenty of time, like Vegas, home to Momofuku and Bāng Bar in the Cosmopolitan, but still makes unexpected discoveries.

“It was a good reminder that I don’t know anything,” Chang said of the Vegas trip, where he and Oscar-winning filmmaker Cord Jefferson sampled Hawaiian, Ethiopian and Filipino flavors way beyond The Strip. And it’s a reminder that applies more broadly to a culture that’s suffering from information overload.

“It’s OK if we don’t know. We just need to be more honest about saying we don’t know something” — instead of assuming that we know a culture or place, says Chang, who’s also an author.

CNN Travel spoke with Chang about the biggest mistakes travelers make when it comes to food and the lessons he’s learned from his own adventures.

We all tend to be either under- or over-prepared, Chang says.

Being over-prepared can mean looking at too many lists and posts and giving what other people say too much weight.

“Just question the source,” Chang urges. “And not to say that it’s wrong, but why would you assume that the likes and dislikes of an individual are going to match what you like? And the problem is, because we’re not questioning that, everyone’s liking the same thing.”

Watch out for plans “where everything is written in stone.” Chang and the show’s producers wound up taking a sharp turn off their itinerary in South Florida where they had hotels and logistics mapped out in advance because Chang’s companion, comedian Eric André, had other ideas.

“Eric André was like, ‘What do you mean we’re not going to Miami? We’re going to Miami’ … That was a surprise, for sure. Like we had no plan, at all, to be in that city. And it was a lot of fun. I’m glad that we did,” he said.

But prep has its place. “Thinking that everything’s going to come your way,” he says, without making any plans, doesn’t usually work out especially well either.

Chang likes to argue — with friends, over food. And he’s a fan of niche experiences.

“I look at restaurants more as like community or cultural banks, right? And there’s a little bit for everybody, but when a restaurant has to be everything to everyone, that’s not necessarily going to work. Works for some, right?

“But it’s nice to have restaurants that are sort of like a niche film or a niche album,” he says.

And there’s more to it than food.

“It’s about time and place,” Chang says. “What are you in the mood for? How far are you away from this? … When we make this, sort of this monolithic thing of like, ‘It has to be these five places and everything else is not that,’” it’s limiting.

Ask yourself: “‘What is good to you?’ Screw everything else.”

Chang admits to becoming “calcified” in what he likes, particularly when it comes to music. But listening more closely has helped.

“That sense of discovery again in music is something that I find to be sort of crucial for me to be happy — to be inquisitive, to be curious. And I think food can be the same way,” he said.

To that end, open your mind to gas station dining.

“My good friend Little Meg in Japan, she says the best way to judge a food culture is not by the best restaurants, but it’s by the places that are not quote unquote, ‘the best,’ convenience stores, cheap eats, etc. And that’s what I like.”

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So go forth and sample.

“What better way to know than to get what looks like a dodgy sandwich, but maybe it’s not, you know?” says Chang.

In places like Japan and Italy, gas station food is “tremendous,” he says, and he expects other places will follow.

“For someone that’s not overly optimistic on a lot of things, I’m optimistic that food will be delicious in places you least expect it, because it has to.”

Chang has had the luxury of eating in the world’s greatest restaurants.

“I’ve probably eaten better than most kings and queens in the history of the world. And I don’t think that’s something that should ever happen, right? And when I travel, I wanna remind myself … just be grateful that you’re there, to be present.”

Not every experience has to be superlative. Take Chang’s trip to France with his wife last year.

“We went out to eat. I didn’t force myself to have the greatest baguette or ‘I have to go here’ … I think we had more food at museum cafes than not. It was fine. You know, fine is completely overlooked,” he said with a laugh.

“You know, having ‘fine’ is pretty remarkable in and of itself.”

编者按：《大卫·张的绕道之旅》跟随这位备受赞誉的厨师、餐厅老板兼作家，在公路旅行中寻找朴实无华却令人难忘的美食。每周日晚9点和10点（美国东部/太平洋时间）在CNN播出两集，次日即可在线观看。

我们都太执着于追求最好——最好的芝士牛排、最好的墨西哥卷饼、最好的新餐厅。

大卫·张大厨的解决方案是：“扔掉你的手机。我的意思是，最糟糕的情况会是什么？你会挨饿吗？不，你会吃到东西。”

他说，这不一定总是美味的，但如果你“相信自己的直觉，字面意义上的相信”，你就会学到一些东西。

“吃最好的、最好的、最好的食物，实际上可能并不会带来最好的体验，”张先生说道。他于 2004 年在纽约东村开了一家面馆，创立了 Momofuku 餐饮帝国，如今在洛杉矶、纽约和拉斯维加斯都拥有餐厅。

在这个“最佳榜单”能带来点击量和出版物销量的世界里，人们自然而然地会追随那些所谓的品味权威——他指出，其中许多人“其实一窍不通”——这种冲动正在阻碍人们的探索发现。而张本人也难逃此劫。

他的全新节目《大卫·张的绕道之旅》（The Detour with David Chang）主打探索而非追随。这部CNN原创系列节目将于周日首播，带领观众跟随张踏上六段美国公路之旅，途经拉斯维加斯、纳什维尔和匹兹堡等城市。旅途中，他将与形形色色的嘉宾同行，而这些嘉宾都有可能让整个计划泡汤。

一路上，张先生拜访了一些他曾多次到访的地方，比如拉斯维加斯，那里有 Momofuku 餐厅和 Cosmopolitan 酒店的 Bāng Bar，但他仍然有意想不到的发现。

“这次拉斯维加斯之旅让我意识到自己懂得太少，”张先生说道。他和奥斯卡获奖导演科德·杰斐逊在拉斯维加斯大道之外，品尝了夏威夷、埃塞俄比亚和菲律宾的美食。而这种感悟，对于一个正遭受信息过载之苦的社会来说，也同样适用。

“不知道也没关系。我们只需要更诚实地承认自己不知道的事情”——而不是想当然地认为自己了解某种文化或地方，身为作家的张说道。

CNN旅游频道采访了张先生，谈到了旅行者在饮食方面最常犯的错误以及他从自己的旅行经历中吸取的教训。

张说，我们往往要么准备不足，要么准备过度。

准备过度可能意味着查看过多的清单和帖子，并过分重视其他人所说的话。

“只要质疑信息的来源就行了，”张教授敦促道。“我并不是说这种做法是错的，但你为什么会认为一个人的喜好会和你的喜好一致呢？问题在于，正因为我们没有质疑这一点，所以大家喜欢的东西都一样了。”

要警惕那些“一切都已成定局”的计划。张和节目制作人原本计划在南佛罗里达拍摄，并提前安排好了酒店和后勤，但张的同伴、喜剧演员埃里克·安德烈却另有打算，结果他们的行程不得不来了个大转弯。

“埃里克·安德烈当时说，‘什么？你说我们不去迈阿密？我们要去迈阿密！’……这绝对是个惊喜。我们之前根本没计划要去那个城市。而且玩得很开心。我很高兴我们去了，”他说。

但做好准备也有它的好处。“认为一切都会顺其自然，”他说，而不做任何计划，通常也不会有什么好结果。

张先生喜欢争论——和朋友争论，也喜欢争论食物。而且他热衷于小众体验。

“我更倾向于把餐厅看作是社区或文化银行，对吧？每个人都能从中找到一些乐趣，但如果一家餐厅想要满足所有人的所有需求，那未必能成功。对某些人来说可能行得通，对吧？”

“但拥有一些像小众电影或小众专辑一样的餐厅也挺好的，”他说。

而且，它不仅仅关乎食物。

“这关乎时间和地点，”张说。“你当时的心情是什么？你离这个地方有多远？……如果我们把这当成一个单一的整体，比如‘必须是这五个地方，其他一切都不是’，”那就太局限了。

问问自己：“什么对你真正有益？”其他一切都无关紧要。

张承认自己在喜好上变得“固执己见”，尤其是在音乐方面。但更仔细地聆听对他有所帮助。

“在音乐中再次感受到那种探索发现的感觉，对我来说至关重要，它能让我感到快乐——保持好奇心和求知欲。我认为食物也能起到同样的作用，”他说。

为此，不妨敞开心扉，尝试一下加油站餐饮。

“我在日本的好朋友小梅格说，评判一个饮食文化的最佳方式不是看最好的餐厅，而是看那些并非所谓的‘最好’的地方，比如便利店、廉价餐馆等等。而这正是我喜欢的。”

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所以，尽情去品尝吧。

“还有什么比买到一份看起来很可疑的三明治，但也许它其实是好的，更能知道它的真伪呢？”张说道。

他说，在日本和意大利等地，加油站的食物“非常棒”，他预计其他地方也会效仿。

“虽然我对很多事情都不太乐观，但我乐观地认为，在你最意想不到的地方，食物也会很美味，因为食物必须如此。”

张先生有幸在世界顶级餐厅用餐。

“我吃过的饭可能比世界上大多数国王和王后都好。我觉得这不应该发生，对吧？我旅行的时候，总是想提醒自己……要心怀感激，珍惜当下。”

并非每次经历都必须是极致的。就拿张先生去年和妻子去法国的旅行来说吧。

“我们出去吃饭了。我没有强迫自己去吃最好的法棍，也没有非得去这家店……我觉得我们在博物馆咖啡馆吃的比其他地方吃的要多。感觉还不错。你知道，‘不错’这个词经常被人忽略，”他笑着说。

“你知道，能够‘健康’本身就是一件非常了不起的事情。”