European officials weigh mix of high-tech drones and heavy armor

WARSAW, Poland — European governments are encouraging their defense industries to jointly develop and produce unmanned systems with Ukrainian companies, while cautioning to simultaneously new keep tanks and armored vehicles on hand for defending NATO’s eastern flank, officials said at the Warsaw Security Forum.

Dilan Yeşilgöz-Zegerius, the deputy prime minister and defense minister of the Netherlands, highlighted the Dutch defense sector’s ties with Ukraine in the field of drones.

“Our armed forces are really training, as we speak, every day with the knowledge the Ukrainians have, because … they have the most innovative Army in Europe,” Yeşilgöz-Zegerius said on Oct. 12. “And what we are doing at the same time … is investing in our own defense industry. Because it was also, of course, due to a lack of spending, not that strong anymore. And in Europe we have that issue.”

Meanwhile, while investing in drone and counter-drone systems, NATO allies bordering Russia are also procuring heavy gear for their land forces and seeking to secure a significant share of manufacturing work for their domestic defense industries.

Lithuanian Defense Minister Robertas Kaunas told Defense News at the forum that the country’s planned acquisition of six-wheel-drive armored personnel carriers from Finland’s Patria is an example of how allies can work together on major purchases for their land forces. The vehicles are to support the Baltic state’s National Division, its main combat unit.

“One of our intentions is not only to assemble, but also be involved in the R&D process,” Kaunas said. “The National Division is important because, together with our allies, including the United States, Germany, Poland, we can block our adversaries near the front line, near our borders, and then, of course, use drones, modern types of weapons to break them.”

Kaunas said that combining the two categories of military assets is crucial, as demonstrated in Ukraine.

“Ukraine adapted tanks with additional defense anti-drone capabilities and used them as a great source of protection for their soldiers, pushing Russians back near the front lines,” the Lithuanian minister said.

Dovilė Šakalienė, a Lithuanian lawmaker and the country’s former National Defence Minister, told Defense News that European allies must sign “smart contracts” that reflect the rapidly changing battlefield reality in Ukraine, as exemplified by Lithuania’s 2024 deal to buy 44 Leopard 2A8 tanks for the country’s military, which she signed while in office.

“We need to sign smart contracts which give us the delivery of the newest technology,” Šakalienė said. “In the Leopard agreement, we also included in a very clear way a condition that the newest version of anti-drone defense systems is going to be included. Not the ones which would be ready in 2024, but the ones that will be ready at the time of the assembly of these tanks. For the development of such technology, three years is eternity.”

Despite European nations’ rapid expansion of drone procurement, allies should continue to invest in heavy equipment such as tanks and armored vehicles for their land forces, Šakalienė said.

“Massive land maneuvers cannot be completed only with drones,” she added.

Meanwhile, as Poland, the forum’s host, is making efforts to increasingly shift from the role of a buyer of foreign military gear to exporter of such goods, foreign defense groups competing for major orders are investing to expand their manufacturing footholds in the country. For U.S. companies, Poland’s drive to expand its domestic production capacities comes as many industry players are already planning to boost their capabilities in the country.

“One of the things I can say about Poland is that the workforce here is exceptional. We’ve already got 1,000 employees here in Poland. And we’re looking to have much more than that,” Vince Logsdon, vice president for international business development at Boeing Defense Space and Security, told Defense News.

Building on the 2024 deal to sell 96 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters to Poland under a deal worth around $10 billion, the producer is now offering its CH-47 Chinook aircraft to the country’s armed forces, pitching it as a complementary platform to the Apaches that can support troop movements and battlefield logistics.

“The Chinook is our offering, it has proven itself throughout the world as a vertical lift, heavy lift helicopter. It has lots of operators throughout the world, and one of the things I have seen with our CH-47 offering is that most operators that acquire the Apache, they ultimately also acquire the CH-47,” Logsdon said. “It’s a perfect combination in terms of extending the battle space for the Apache.

Jaroslaw Adamowski is the Poland correspondent for Defense News.

波兰华沙——官员们在华沙安全论坛上表示，欧洲各国政府正在鼓励本国国防工业与乌克兰公司联合开发和生产无人系统，同时告诫各国也要保持坦克和装甲车在手，以保卫北约东翼。

荷兰副首相兼国防部长迪兰·耶希尔戈兹-泽格里乌斯强调了荷兰国防部门与乌克兰在无人机领域的联系。

“就在我们说话的此刻，我们的武装部队每天都在学习乌克兰人所掌握的知识进行训练，因为……他们拥有欧洲最具创新力的军队，”叶希尔戈兹-泽格里乌斯10月12日表示。“与此同时，我们也在投资发展我们自己的国防工业。因为当然，由于缺乏投入，我们的国防工业已经不再那么强大了。而欧洲也面临着同样的问题。”

与此同时，北约与俄罗斯接壤的盟国在投资无人机和反无人机系统的同时，也在为其陆军采购重型装备，并寻求为其国内国防工业争取相当一部分制造工作。

立陶宛国防部长罗伯塔斯·考纳斯在论坛上告诉《防务新闻》，该国计划从芬兰帕特里亚公司采购六轮驱动装甲运兵车，这正是盟国如何在陆军重大采购方面开展合作的典范。这些车辆将用于支援立陶宛的主要作战部队——国民师。

考纳斯说：“我们的目标之一不仅是组建部队，还要参与研发过程。国家师非常重要，因为有了它，我们就能与包括美国、德国和波兰在内的盟友一起，在前线附近、在边境附近阻击我们的对手，然后，当然，我们还可以使用无人机和现代武器来摧毁他们。”

考纳斯表示，将这两类军事资产结合起来至关重要，正如乌克兰所证明的那样。

立陶宛部长表示：“乌克兰改装了坦克，增加了反无人机防御能力，并将其作为士兵的重要保护来源，将俄罗斯人击退到前线附近。”

立陶宛议员、该国前国防部长多维莱·沙卡列涅 (Dovilė Šakalienė) 告诉《防务新闻》，欧洲盟友必须签署反映乌克兰战场快速变化的“智能合同”，例如立陶宛在她任职期间签署的、将于 2024 年为该国军队购买 44 辆豹 2A8 坦克的协议。

“我们需要签署智能合约，确保我们能获得最新技术，”Šakalienė说道。“在豹式坦克协议中，我们也明确规定了必须配备最新版本的反无人机防御系统。不是2024年才能完成的版本，而是坦克组装时就能投入使用的版本。对于这种技术的研发而言，三年时间太长了。”

Šakalienė 表示，尽管欧洲各国迅速扩大了无人机采购规模，但盟国仍应继续投资坦克和装甲车等重型装备，以装备其陆军。

她补充说：“仅靠无人机无法完成大规模陆地演习。”

与此同时，作为论坛东道主的波兰正努力从外国军火装备的买家向出口国转型，竞相争取大订单的外国国防集团也纷纷投资，扩大在波兰的生产规模。对于美国企业而言，波兰扩大国内产能的举措正值许多行业参与者计划提升其在波兰的生产能力之际。

“关于波兰，我可以肯定地说，这里的劳动力非常出色。我们已经在波兰拥有1000名员工。而且我们希望未来能有更多员工加入，”波音防务航天与安全公司国际业务发展副总裁文斯·洛格斯顿告诉《防务新闻》。

继 2024 年向波兰出售 96 架价值约 100 亿美元的 AH-64E 阿帕奇攻击直升机之后，该制造商现在正向波兰武装部队推销其 CH-47 支奴干飞机，并将其定位为阿帕奇的补充平台，可以支持部队调动和战场后勤。

“奇努克是我们的产品，它已在全球范围内证明了其作为垂直起降重型直升机的卓越性能。它在全球拥有众多用户。我从我们CH-47的销售情况中发现，大多数采购阿帕奇的运营商最终也会采购CH-47，”洛格斯顿说道。“就拓展阿帕奇的作战空间而言，这是一个完美的组合。”

Jaroslaw Adamowski 是《防务新闻》驻波兰记者。