Ukrainian drone makers visit Paris looking for co-production deals

PARIS — More than two dozen Ukrainian defense companies traveled to Paris this week to meet with French counterparts, laying the groundwork for co-production deals in France and seeking to bolster integration with the European defense-industrial base.

French defense firms have been slow to set up joint companies with Ukrainian partners, with just one joint venture created so far, compared to 11 for Germany and five for Spain, said Ihor Fedirko, the chief executive officer of the Ukrainian Council of Defence Industry . He was speaking at a press briefing late Wednesday after a day of meetings organized with French land defense industry group GICAT .

Ukraine has developed unmatched expertise in Europe in drone warfare after four years of fighting Russia’s invasion, coming up with new use cases and doctrine as well as scaling up drone production to millions of units per year. Meanwhile, France is home to some of Europe’s biggest defense firms and is the world’s second-biggest arms exporter.

“We have to establish a win-win strategy with the defense industry of France, to find our best partners,” Fedirko said. “We want to know as well how you produce your products, your production culture, your standards. That’s what you can bring to our industry.”

Ukraine was present with 27 companies, most of them drone makers, while nearly 60 French firms showed up for the day of match making, according to Fedirko. He said some Ukrainian companies would follow up with visits to French manufacturers on Thursday.

Co-producing Ukrainian defense products with strategic partners, on their territory, means an additional flow of equipment to send to the front, said Oleksandr Kamyshin, an adviser to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and former minister of strategic industries. He said allied governments buying co-produced kit to donate to Ukraine “is the fastest and the best way how we can support our front line.”

Kamyshin said Ukraine’s industry has historically been integrated “into the East” and now needs to become part of the European defense framework, while Europe’s defense industry will become stronger by integrating capabilities learned and developed in Ukraine.

“We come with our lessons learned,” Kamyshin said. “We offer a model which is definitely beneficial for your country, for your industry, for your economy. And we want to do more together.”

Fedirko said no other European country has a defense industry like that of France, active in deep tech and completely independent, with the French industry strong in aerospace and “classic weaponry.” With France able produce everything from missiles and radars to night-vision equipment, what Ukraine can bring is knowledge, technologies and innovations in the field of drones, he said.

“When we will combine our experience and expertise and your deep technologies, your standards, your production culture, we can establish something pretty new,” Fedirko said.

French companies may announce at least one or two drone joint ventures with Ukrainian partners in the coming weeks, said Clément Requier, GICAT’s director of export and European partnerships. He noted France’s defense industry already works with Ukraine’s industry in formats other than joint ventures.

Ukraine is offering a level of industrial collaboration that wouldn’t have been available five years ago, and is open to sharing what it learned to produce, in the interest of integrating with European industry, according to Kamyshin. The Ukrainian official said in turn he sees strong interest in cooperation from the French side.

Wednesday’s meeting was the fourth between the French and Ukrainian defense industries since July 2023, and the first in France, according to Requier. France often frames cooperation with other countries in terms of delivering stand-alone solutions, and should think more about also being a provider of critical components and equipment, he said.

Ukraine has the expertise it needs, with more than 1,000 companies active in defense, most of them producing unmanned systems, said Kamyshin. He said Ukrainian drones have sunk Russian ships and submarines, saying it “looks like Lego drones work well,” an oblique reference to reported comments by Rheinmetall CEO Armin Papperger widely seen as dismissive of Ukraine’s drone innovation.

France has deep knowledge and expertise in artificial intelligence, and “we would be happy do to more in that domain,” according to Kamyshin. Ukraine sees France as a strategic partner, and the focus is on promoting collaboration and co-production in France, rather than sales, the special adviser said.

Ukraine in March raised the possibility of sharing battlefield data with partners to train AI models, and Kamyshin said Ukraine would be happy to share datasets with countries with which it starts co-production, and “not only in Ukraine,” with an announcement on partnerships expected on April 13.

With regards to what France can bring to the table, Ukraine could benefit from more sharing of strong standard setting in Europe, said Éloi Delort, public affairs director at Alta Ares , a French defense AI firm. He said France’s Directorate General for Armament puts “a lot of stress” on French companies to secure systems and ensure technology is not getting stolen.

One of Wednesday’s participants, Ukraine’s MOWA Defense , which provides training and advisory services for defense, sees France as a key market, co-founder Fedir Serdiuk said. Operating in France would require a local partner, which the executive says he hopes to have found, with a possible final agreement or at least a letter of intent in coming months.

Ukrainian drone maker eDrone came to Paris looking for new partnerships, chief commercial officer Pavlo Valenchuk said. He cited the example of a French company with radars, a good drone-tracking system and software, “everything to develop a really good system” to protect strategic objects in France, but lacking interceptor drones. “This type of partnership we’re looking for.”

French company SBG Systems , which makes low-cost inertial navigation systems in France that are used by Ukraine in strike drones, is looking to qualify partnerships to relocate some production to Ukraine, CEO Thibault Bonnevie said. Some manufacturing may be difficult to move because it relies on machine tools from Switzerland, with export restrictions for countries in conflict, he said.

SBG is working to enhance feedback on its products from the front line, a key issue in Ukraine because of the fast-evolving battlefield and Russian electronic-warfare, Bonnevie said. The company’s customers are manufacturers rather than the armed forces directly, which means relying on the drone makers for user feedback, something that was “discussed a lot” on Wednesday, the CEO said.

Meeting with Ukrainian companies in Paris was a way to meet potential new partners rather than sign contracts, according to Bonnevie.

“The next step is usually to go visit those companies directly in Ukraine, because there is nothing really happening in Ukraine for European companies without stronger links,” Bonnevie said. Even if discussions center around drones and robots, “there is still a story of humans working together and trust that needs to be built between the companies,” he said.

Rudy Ruitenberg is a Europe correspondent for Defense News. He started his career at Bloomberg News and has experience reporting on technology, commodity markets and politics.

巴黎——本周，二十多家乌克兰国防公司前往巴黎与法国同行会面，为在法国开展合作生产协议奠定基础，并寻求加强与欧洲国防工业基础的融合。

乌克兰国防工业委员会首席执行官伊戈尔·费迪尔科表示，法国国防企业与乌克兰合作伙伴成立合资公司的步伐一直较为缓慢，迄今为止仅成立了一家合资企业，而德国和西班牙分别成立了11家和5家。他是在周三晚间举行的新闻发布会上发表上述言论的，此前他与法国陆地国防工业集团GICAT举行了一整天的会谈。

经过四年与俄罗斯入侵的斗争，乌克兰在欧洲无人机作战领域积累了无与伦比的专业知识，不仅开发出新的应用场景和作战理论，还将无人机年产量提升至数百万架。与此同时，法国拥有欧洲一些最大的国防企业，并且是世界第二大武器出口国。

费迪尔科表示：“我们必须与法国国防工业建立双赢战略，找到最佳合作伙伴。我们也想了解你们的产品生产方式、生产文化和标准。这些才是你们能为我们的行业带来的价值。”

据费迪尔科介绍，乌克兰派出了27家公司参展，其中大部分是无人机制造商；而近60家法国公司也参加了当天的对接洽谈会。他还表示，一些乌克兰公司将于周四继续拜访法国制造商。

乌克兰总统泽连斯基的顾问、前战略工业部长奥列克桑德·卡梅申表示，与战略伙伴在其领土上联合生产乌克兰国防产品，意味着可以向前线输送更多装备。他指出，盟国政府购买联合生产的装备捐赠给乌克兰，“是我们支持前线最快捷、最好的方式”。

卡米申表示，乌克兰的工业历来“融入东方”，现在需要成为欧洲防务框架的一部分，而欧洲的防务工业也将通过整合在乌克兰学习和发展的能力而变得更加强大。

“我们带着经验教训而来，”卡米申说。“我们提供的模式肯定对贵国、贵行业、贵经济都有益处。我们希望未来能与贵国开展更多合作。”

费迪尔科表示，没有其他欧洲国家拥有像法国那样活跃于尖端科技领域且完全独立的国防工业，法国国防工业在航空航天和“传统武器”方面实力雄厚。他说，法国能够生产从导弹、雷达到夜视设备等各种装备，而乌克兰能够带来的则是无人机领域的知识、技术和创新。

“当我们把我们的经验和专业知识与你们深厚的技术、标准和生产文化结合起来时，我们可以创造出一些全新的东西，”费迪尔科说。

法国国防工业集团GICAT出口及欧洲合作总监克莱门特·雷基耶表示，未来几周，法国企业可能会宣布与乌克兰合作伙伴成立至少一到两家无人机合资企业。他还指出，法国国防工业此前已与乌克兰国防工业开展过合资企业以外的合作。

卡梅申表示，乌克兰目前提供的产业合作水平是五年前无法想象的，并且为了融入欧洲产业，乌克兰愿意分享其生产经验。这位乌克兰官员还表示，他看到法国方面对合作表现出浓厚的兴趣。

据雷基耶称，周三的会晤是自2023年7月以来法乌两国国防工业的第四次会晤，也是首次在法国举行。他表示，法国在与其他国家的合作中，往往只关注提供独立解决方案，而应该更多地考虑如何成为关键零部件和设备的供应商。

卡米申表示，乌克兰拥有所需的专业技术，该国拥有1000多家活跃于国防领域的公司，其中大多数生产无人系统。他还说，乌克兰无人机击沉了俄罗斯的舰艇和潜艇，并称“看起来乐高无人机也很好用”，这显然是在暗指莱茵金属公司首席执行官阿明·帕佩格尔此前发表的言论，该言论被广泛认为是对乌克兰无人机创新能力的轻蔑。

卡梅申表示，法国在人工智能领域拥有深厚的知识和专业技术，“我们很乐意在该领域开展更多合作”。这位特别顾问还表示，乌克兰视法国为战略伙伴，重点在于促进与法国的合作与联合生产，而非产品销售。

乌克兰在 3 月份提出了与合作伙伴共享战场数据以训练人工智能模型的可能性，卡米申表示，乌克兰乐于与开始合作生产的国家共享数据集，“不仅限于乌克兰”，预计将于 4 月 13 日宣布合作伙伴关系。

法国国防人工智能公司Alta Ares的公共事务总监埃洛伊·德洛尔表示，就法国能够提供的帮助而言，乌克兰可以从欧洲更强有力的标准制定体系中获益。他还指出，法国军备总局对法国企业施加了“很大压力”，要求其确保系统安全，防止技术被窃取。

周三的参会者之一，乌克兰MOWA Defense公司联合创始人费迪尔·谢尔迪克表示，该公司将法国视为关键市场。MOWA Defense是一家提供国防培训和咨询服务的企业。在法国开展业务需要当地合作伙伴，谢尔迪克表示他希望已经找到合适的合作伙伴，并有望在未来几个月内达成最终协议或至少签署意向书。

乌克兰无人机制造商eDrone首席商务官帕夫洛·瓦伦丘克表示，该公司此次来到巴黎寻求新的合作伙伴。他举例说，一家法国公司拥有雷达、优秀的无人机追踪系统和软件，“具备开发一套真正优秀的系统”来保护法国战略目标的全部条件，但缺少拦截无人机。“这正是我们正在寻找的合作伙伴。”

法国SBG Systems公司首席执行官蒂博·博纳维表示，该公司正在寻求合适的合作伙伴，将部分生产转移到乌克兰。SBG Systems在法国生产低成本的惯性导航系统，乌克兰将其用于攻击型无人机。他指出，由于部分生产环节依赖于瑞士的机床，而冲突国家对瑞士机床存在出口限制，因此转移这些生产环节可能较为困难。

SBG正努力加强从前线收集产品反馈，这在乌克兰尤为重要，因为战场瞬息万变，且俄罗斯的电子战手段也十分强大。邦纳维表示，该公司客户主要是制造商，而非直接面向武装部队，这意味着需要依赖无人机制造商提供用户反馈。这位首席执行官还提到，周三的会议上就此进行了“深入讨论”。

邦纳维表示，在巴黎与乌克兰公司会面是为了结识潜在的新合作伙伴，而不是为了签署合同。

博纳维表示：“下一步通常是直接去乌克兰拜访这些公司，因为如果没有更紧密的联系，欧洲公司在乌克兰的业务几乎不会有任何进展。” 他还说，即使讨论的重点是无人机和机器人，“但其中仍然包含着人与人之间的合作以及公司间需要建立的信任。”

鲁迪·鲁伊滕贝格是《防务新闻》的欧洲记者。他的职业生涯始于彭博新闻社，拥有报道科技、大宗商品市场和政治方面的经验。