NATO allies insist Ukraine and Europe must be part of peace talks

BRUSSELS (AP) — Several NATO allies stressed on Thursday that Ukraine and Europe must not be cut out of any peace negotiations as U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth denied that the United States is betraying the war-ravaged country.

European governments are reeling after the Trump administration signaled that it is planning face-to-face talks with Russia on ending the Ukraine war without involving them, insisted that Kyiv should not join NATO, and said that it’s up to Europe to protect itself and Ukraine from whatever Russia might do next.

“There can be no negotiation about Ukraine without Ukraine. And Ukraine’s voice must be at the heart of any talks,” U.K. Defence Secretary John Healey told reporters at NATO headquarters, as the organization’s 32 defense ministers met for talks on Ukraine.

German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said: “For me, it’s clear … that Europe must be involved in the negotiations — and I think that’s very easy to understand,” particularly if Europe is “supposed to play a central or the main role in the peace order.”

Europe, he said, “will have to live directly” with the consequences, so “it goes without saying that we must be part of the negotiations.”

Hegseth denied that the U.S. has betrayed Ukraine by launching negotiations about its future without Kyiv’s full involvement. After talks with Putin and then Zelenskyy, Trump said on Wednesday he would “probably” meet in person with the Russian leader in the near term, possibly in Saudi Arabia.

“There is no betrayal there. There is a recognition that the whole world and the United States is invested and interested in peace. A negotiated peace,” Hegesth told reporters.

Hegseth warned that the war in Ukraine must “be a wakeup call” for NATO’s European allies to spend more on their own defense budgets.

Twenty-three of the 32 member countries were forecast to have met the organization’s guideline of spending 2% of gross domestic product on their national defense budgets last year, but a third still do not.

But Hegseth’s French counterpart, Sébastien Lecornu, described the wrangling over greater defense spending as “a false debate,” saying that governments and parliaments across Europe are already approving more weapons purchases and bigger military budgets while helping Ukraine stave off an invasion.

Lecornu warned that the future of NATO itself is now in question.

“To say that it’s the biggest and most robust alliance in history is true, historically speaking. But the real question is will that still be the case in 10 or 15 years,” he said, after the U.S. — by far NATO’s biggest and most powerful member — signaled that its security priorities lie elsewhere, including in Asia.

NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte, who was chairing Thursday’s meeting, said that whatever agreement is struck between Russia and Ukraine, it is crucial that the “peace deal is enduring, that Putin knows that this is the end, that he can never again try to capture a piece of Ukraine.”

Touting Europe’s investment in Ukraine, Swedish Defense Minister Pål Jonson said European nations provided about 60% of the military support to Kyiv last year and must be involved, especially given U.S. demands that Europe take more responsibility for Ukraine’s security in the longer term.

“It’s very natural that we’re engaged into the discussions,” Jonson said.

His Estonian counterpart, Hanno Pevkur, underlined that the European Union has driven sanctions against Russia, has invested heavily in Ukraine’s defense, and will be asked to foot the bill for rebuilding the war-ravaged country.

“We have to be there. So there is no question about it. Otherwise this peace will not be long lasting,” Pevkur warned.

Geir Moulson in Berlin contributed to this report.

布鲁塞尔（美联社）——周四，几位北约盟国强调，乌克兰和欧洲不应被排除在任何和平谈判之外。与此同时，美国国防部长皮特·赫格塞斯否认美国背叛了这个饱受战争蹂躏的国家。

特朗普政府发出信号，计划与俄罗斯就结束乌克兰战争进行面对面会谈，但不会邀请欧洲各国参与。特朗普政府还坚持基辅不应该加入北约，并表示保护自身和乌克兰免受俄罗斯下一步行动的影响是欧洲的责任。此举令欧洲各国政府感到震惊。

“没有乌克兰的参与，就不可能进行任何关于乌克兰的谈判。乌克兰的声音必须是任何谈判的核心，”英国国防大臣约翰·希利在北约总部对记者说。当时，北约32个国家的国防部长正在举行会议，讨论乌克兰问题。

德国国防部长鲍里斯·皮斯托里乌斯表示：“对我来说，很明显……欧洲必须参与谈判——我认为这很容易理解，”特别是如果欧洲“应该在和平秩序中发挥核心或主要作用”。

他说，欧洲“将不得不直接承受”这些后果，因此“我们必须参与谈判，这是不言而喻的”。

赫格塞斯否认美国在基辅未充分参与的情况下启动乌克兰未来谈判是背叛乌克兰的行为。在与普京和泽连斯基会谈后，特朗普周三表示，他“可能”会在近期与俄罗斯领导人会面，地点可能在沙特阿拉伯。

“这里不存在背叛。而是认识到全世界和美国都致力于和平，都希望通过谈判实现和平，”赫格斯特告诉记者。

赫格塞斯警告说，乌克兰战争必须“给北约的欧洲盟国敲响警钟”，促使它们增加国防预算支出。

去年，32 个成员国中有 23 个预计达到该组织规定的国防预算支出占国内生产总值 2% 的指导方针，但仍有三分之一的国家没有达到。

但赫格塞斯的法国同行塞巴斯蒂安·勒科尔努将关于增加国防开支的争论描述为“一场虚假的辩论”，并表示欧洲各国政府和议会已经在批准购买更多武器和增加军费预算，同时帮助乌克兰抵御入侵。

莱科尔努警告说，北约的未来现在也受到了质疑。

“从历史角度来看，说它是历史上规模最大、实力最强的联盟是没错的。但真正的问题是，10年或15年后情况是否依然如此，”他说道。此前，美国——迄今为止北约最大、最强大的成员国——已表示，其安全重点在其他地方，包括亚洲。

主持周四会议的北约秘书长马克·吕特表示，无论俄罗斯和乌克兰之间达成何种协议，至关重要的是“和平协议必须持久，普京必须明白这是结束，他再也不能试图夺取乌克兰的任何领土”。

瑞典国防大臣帕尔·约翰逊大力宣传欧洲对乌克兰的投资，称欧洲国家去年向基辅提供了约 60% 的军事支持，必须参与其中，尤其是在美国要求欧洲从长远角度承担更多乌克兰安全责任的情况下。

“我们参与讨论是很自然的事情，”约翰逊说。

他的爱沙尼亚同行汉诺·佩夫库尔强调，欧盟对俄罗斯实施了制裁，对乌克兰国防进行了大量投资，并将被要求承担重建这个饱受战争蹂躏的国家的费用。

“我们必须在那里。这一点毋庸置疑。否则，和平不会长久，”佩夫库尔警告说。

柏林的盖尔·穆尔森对本报道亦有贡献。